Let Boko Haram have their own country, says Omoruyi

Let Boko Haram have their own country, says Omoruyi

July 5, 2011

By SIMON   EBEGBULEM

BENIN – FORMER Director-General of the Centre for Democratic Studies, CDS, Prof. Omo Omoruyi, has advocated for a referendum that will enable the Boko Haram religious sect have their own country in order to avoid further bloodshed.

Querying the call by some Nigerians for the granting of amnesty to members of the sect, Prof. Omoruyi, argued that so far Nigerians were yet to know “exactly” what the sect was agitating for, unlike the former militants in the Niger Delta, who fought marginalisation.

He said: “I think there is a lot of confusion about the demands of the militants in the Niger Delta and the Boko Haram of the North. In Niger Delta, we knew what the problems were, who the people were and what they were talking about; being injustice arising from the oil in the area.

“They did not hide it. Sometimes, it manifested as resource control, sometimes, derivation. They cried that the oil is dooming in the Niger Delta but the money is booming in the North.

“For Boko Haram, is theirs political? Are they saying that they want Afghanistan in Nigeria? The solution I think is lets give them that part of the country for them to live in the stone age. There is nothing you are going to do than allow that to reign there. Let us have a referendum and give them the opportunity to run their state according to the Sharia. I believe so.

“We don’t know these people. They have not come out to say who they are. Therefore, when somebody said that they want to dialogue, dialogue with who? When they say give amnesty, amnesty to who?

“You can talk with militants you know are fighting for their oil, because you know it belongs to them and it is true.

“There is a monogramme I am putting in place now which I will dedicate to Chief Edwin Clark because of what he did for the oil producing areas over the years; what I called the politics of oil.

“If oil were found in Kano or Enugu or Ijebu Ode, the Nigerian history would have been different today. If today oil is found in Borno, Nigeria will be divided.

“There was a time Gambo Jimeta, the former Inspector-General of Police said that Northerners will go to war over oil. Any attempt to deprive the North of the oil, they will go to war. Why should they go to war?

“So rather than grant amnesty to faceless people, let there be a referendum and give them their own country.”

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2011/07/let-boko-haram-have-their-own-co...

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COMMENTS

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[Comments from yahoo groups]


Obi Nwakanma 2854 Arsenal Street St. Louis, MO 63118 (314) 771-0961 rexmarinus@hotmail.com 
_____________________ "If I don't learn to shut my mouth I'll soon go to hell, I, Okigbo, town-crier, together with my iron bell." --Christopher Okigbo 

 
"You pride yourself as expert in the theory of nations. How about the actualities? Methinks that would be more sober. When will the facts of any of the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, British India, Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland, Sudan, and Somalia show up in your cross-hair? Are you aware of the current trend in Great Britain? Are the Scots now just like your Ojo and Adeboye? Whatever happened to the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, the British Empire and the French Empire? Weren't these supposed to last for ever? As they say, "those who would not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it". A Yoruba proverb admonishes, " ile ti a ba f'ito mo, iri ni o wo". Nigeria was not built on any sound foundation and that is why it has been stumbling from one disaster to another with increasing severity. We either wisely RECREATE it in the images of its many peoples, and quickly too, or foolishly do nothing and LOSE it."- Dr. Adeboye (In response to Obi Nwakanma) 

1. Those who are asking for balkanization belong in two subcategories:    (A) Folks who are frustrated with the unwillingness of the rulers to restructure Nigeria into a more manageable polity and    (B) Those who believe that Nigeria was always a wrong idea, and that no restructuring can possibly make it work.

 
2. Both subcategories have existed for as long as I can remember. Their current agitation has little or nothing to do with the outcomes of the last election. The SW people definitely seek restructuring.  They've been that way since May 29, 1962 when the NPC/NCNC Federal government took over Western Region with police power. Whether or not SW people now want balkanization, one cannot say that they lost in the last elections. They were very happy to put ACN governors in office in their states, elect ACN state assemblies, federal representatives and senators AND yet vote PDP Jonathan in all their states except Osun.- Dr. Adeboye (In response to Mazi Agomuo) Dr. Adeboye: I note your left-handed kindness in ascribing expertise to me as a "theorist" of nations. I assure you that I am not. I am no Raymond Williams etc. And since you ask about "actualities" - I might claim, having been a professional observer of the social realities of Nigeria, both as a chronicler and as a participant, that the greatest reality excercising the imagination of most Nigerians today are the bread and butter issues, or what we call the "quality of life" question. Do they have clean water? Do they have well-built schools and well-stocked libraries to enhance the learning environment of their children; do they have access to basic and neccessary health care; do they have adequate housing in well-built environments, whether in the urban areas or the countryside; do they have access to legal counsel, good courts with a jury of their peers; do they have human and socuial security; do they have access to public records, and do they have an acountable political leadership and means to public petition, etc.?

 

The structure of the Nigerian state is basic: it is by the agreements of our foundational leaders and representatives, a REPUBLIC and a FEDERATION. I should therefore point to you that the nature of that federation is ultimately of neccessary engineering, arrived at either through parliamentary or plebiscitory action. To put this plainly: however flawed the constitution of Nigeria is, we have a basic text of reformation, and basic democratic condition by which we can make various changes and arrive at the structure of trhe nation we wish. In other words, our constitution is a basic evolutionary document subject to amendments. Such amendments are the products of pure citizenship action, using their representatives in the parliaments of the land. Nigeria requiures no other form of restructuring, except a democratic restructuring. We fought for the democractic rights that will permit the use of the constitution as the via mediaof national political and social transformation. As a Zikist Constitutionalist, I affirm the use of the constitution as the highest means of state transformation. Any other means is uncivilized and invites the use of mobs -intellectual mobs, ideological mobs, street gangs, and ethnic militias. These are two-edged swords as history has often revealed to us.
But let me take on two of your positions in your response to me: one, you claim that Nigeria was not "built on any sound foundation," and two, you claim that the soundness of its foundation will happen only with what you call the "autonomy" of its so-called ethnic components.

 

You also draw the examples of countries like the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, etc. to buttress your point. Now, let me point out the inherent fallacy in your claims, using just two of your examples: one, Somalia is a one ethnic, one religion nation. Today it is a "noyau" state. Its organic ethnic and religious character did not save it from implosion. Indeed, Somalia is by far, in terms of its composition, more coherent, ethnically and religiously, than any Nigerian ethnicity. So why did Somalia collapse? That is the issue you have not addressed. The historical foundations that underlie the collapse of Somalia is present in this debate about Nigeria. Today, you have Somali running into exile to the neighboring states. As for Yugoslavia, I'm not sure you know exactly the backrounds as well as consequence of its demise. Nigerians often introduce examples simply because it is convenient, without making critical anlysis of the unique conditions that undergirds their examples. But let me sketch this matter a bit: Yugoslavia moved from being the Kingdom of the Slavs, the Croatians, and the Slovanians, to being the Socialist Republic of Yugoslavia, and by 1943, the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia made up of Six Republics. To understand the unique circumstance of Yugolsvia, you will have to know a bit of European history, and the place of the Balkans in that theatre of history, going back to Greek antiquity to the Roman era, and the Turkish or Ottoman era. All these movements signify the melding of people and the interlink of history that makes the Blakans consistently in rapid flux. As a federation, Yugolsavia was set on playing a very global role.

 

You must also be aware that WW1 began with a resistance against what we now call "the balkanization" of the Serbo-Slav union, or Yugoslavia by the Austro-Hungarian empire. Yugoslavia emerged as a potentially powerful fedaration in the 20th century - perhaps the second most powerful communist nation in europe. But two things undermined it: one was the weakening of its central authority with the Kosovar demand for a proportionate doctrine as the basis of the federation (a demand akin to "restructure" in Nigeria) and two was the deep economic crisis following Yugoslavia's taking of the IMF loan. Furthermore, the death of Josip Tito in the 1980s left a gaping hole, because, yes, under communism, Yugolslavia had created a cult of personality around Tito rather than the institutions of state. But the upshot is that Yugoslavia collapsed with great consequence: within a year of its collapse and the declaration of the Six republics, we witnessed one of the most horrendous genocides in modern European history and a spiral of devastating wars. Those republics are still in flux and that justifies my earlier claim that the boundaries of nations are not sacrosanct, but are legitimized by the pact of union. As a fedeartion, Yugoslavia served as a bulwark against anomie. Its disintegration led to dystopia. What you propose for Nigeria is Yugoslavia.

 

As a key yoruba intellectual once noted, within a year of Yoruba sovereignty, you will resume the Kiriji wars once more. I'm certain that the Igbo will not fare difefrently either, ditto all the ethnicities existing under the current coverage of the entity called Nigeria. We must indeed learn from Yugoslavia. It is a great fallacy retailed to the ignorant that Nigeria must convene a roundtable of ethnicities in order to be properly established. This is not true. If we must, Nigeria needs a plebiscite. Those who demand the restructuring of Nigeria must do the ground works, raise a plebiscite movement, lobby and get their constitutional representatives to sign-off of on a constitutional refrenedum, both at the state and national assemblies; raise the neccessary fund, do the groundlevel campaigns, and establish the basic framwork and demands of the plebiscite. Do the basic work of citizenship. This is the only legitimate, democratic means of restructuring Nigeria. It will not be at whim and say so of a few Jonahs traveling to Nineveh. But this category of people have not done this, and are busy making claims of uniqueness and autonomy based on their personal levels of xenophobia, intolerance and fear. My argument is quite simple: those who wish to change Nigeria by any means, should get off the internet, and do the spade work: sell your propositions to Nigerians; campaign on these and establish your mandates. Nigeria is by its conception, a democratic republic. It is flawed, certainly, but today, we have the democratic grounds to participate in its governance as citizens.

 

The Nigerian constitution is clear on that. Those aspects which we do not agree with, we must strive, using constitutional means to change. Dr. Adeboye has not decribed to us exactly what he means by (a) federalism (b) when the foundation of a nation is sound, with a clear example of a nation whose "foundations" are sound (c) how else we can recreate Nigeria in the images of its multiethnic peoples except by quanrantine (d) the boundaries that define citizenship and nativity, because it seems clear that he conflates both. Dr Adeboye's positions on the foundation of Nigeria therefore seems to me to be flawed, degenerate, and self-serving. Obi Nwakanma

 

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From: aadeboye@mac.com

EDITED
On Jul 9, 2011, at 1:38 AM, Adeniran Adeboye wrote:

Dear Mazi Agomoh,
I have just read from 17 hours worth of e-mail and found your request. Accordingly, I am sorry for such a tardy response.
1. Those who are asking for balkanization belong in two subcategories:    (A) Folks who are frustrated with the unwillingness of the rulers to restructure Nigeria into a more manageable polity and    (B) Those who believe that Nigeria was always a wrong idea, and that no restructuring can possibly make it work.
2. Both subcategories have existed for as long as I can remember. Their current agitation has little or nothing to do with the outcomes of the last election. The SW people definitely seek restructuring.  They've been that way since May 29, 1962 when the NPC/NCNC Federal government took over Western Region with police power. Whether or not SW people now want balkanization, one cannot say that they lost in the last elections. They were very happy to put ACN governors in office in their states, elect ACN state assemblies, federal representatives and senators AND yet vote PDP Jonathan in all their states except Osun.
3. The enthusiasm and vigor with which the SW approached these recent elections are reminiscent of similar enthusiasms for the December 1964 federal elections and the October 11,1965 regional elections. In both, the people of the SW were hoping to "throw out the rascals" and reclaim legitimacy for governance. We know what followed when rigging frustrated their hope then. That much said, voting in 2011 for what they perceived as the "lesser of two evils" in the presidential election cannot be considered as a ringing endorsement of the PDP agenda or lack of it.
4. I do not believe that the ongoing massacres are a pointer to the Nigeria of your dreams. The only motiveS I see in the agitators ARE to (a) bring an end to the nightmares at the countrywide level and (b) return autonomy to the nationalities  from which the colonialists stole it. If we are wise, the return of autonomy can be in the context of TRUE federalism, soberly designed and faithfully implemented.
Best regards,
Adeniran Adeboye

 
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From: Dr. Valentine Ojo <valojo@md.metrocast.net>
Mazi Nnanna Agomoh:
This is your answer:
"And Mazi Ugwuonye, here is what you said that you must not repeat anywhere from now on:  I do have a dream of a great Nigeria where all shall be equal and no group would be marginalized by another Nwokem, that is ZIK's style misguided statement we just do not want hear in this 21st century, not after genocidal war that nearly killed off Igbo, not after recent massacre of Igbo college graduates in northern Nigeria.....and on and on...  If you are not learning anything in this ordeal, understand that union of Islam and Christianity will not stand test of time in Nigeria.  And that Nigeria is a forced unwanted union of warring African tribes that have nothing in common.  Politics in Nigeria is all tribal and will remain so until the last chapter of the collapsed nation is written.  You are being hounded by EFCC because you are onye Igbo.  As we speak, Islamic looters like IBB, Buhari, Atiku, Abacha family, Danjuma, Obasanjo are all walking the streets of Nigeria free men and well protected. Obu onye agwalu kwe, obulu na onye kwulu okwu ekwuka. Ogbuefi Ezenwanmadu.

 
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On Fri 07/08/11 10:51 PM , Nnanna Agomoh mnagomoh@yahoo.com sent: 
           A RE-POST
From: Nnanna Agomoh 
Dear Dr Adeboye,Yours is as interesting as Dr. Obi Nwakanma's. Well, it can't be otherwise since both of you are members of the academy. But if I may ask, how does anybody now ask for balkanization when the same was rejected with warfare by the Nigerian federation not very long ago?   Don't you think that the enthusiasm and vigor with which the various political partiesparticipated in the last political contest belie the logic and history most people are wontto peddle NOW to justify the demand for balkanization?Consider also that this vigorous clamor for balkanization is coming mostly from the campthat lost the last election. Is it possible to explain the motive for the clamor?Nnanna

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From: Adeniran Adeboye Dear Dr. Nwakanma,
You wrote and I quote:
The likes iof Dr. Ojo and Adeboye and such like, belong increasingly to a passing breed who seem stuck in a romantic nativist rut. While they are busy hoping that Nigeria will dissappear, more ambitious and clear-sighted people are busier shaping tyhe skeleton and building the backbones of this magnificent animal, even it it is a British invention.

 
The survival of an artifice seems so important to you until you are willing to ignore both history and logic to project an unachievable mission. For that, I feel really sorry for you.
However, one would not so easily countenance your ignoring history and your ignoring logic  with your falsifying the past and your standing logic on its head. The very fact that you are a member of the academy makes the latter set of behavior frightening. 

 
You pride yourself as expert in the theory of nations. How about the actualities? Methinks that would be more sober. When will the facts of any of the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, British India, Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland, Sudan, and Somalia show up in your cross-hair? Are you aware of the current trend in Great Britain? Are the Scots now just like your Ojo and Adeboye? Whatever happened to the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, the British Empire and the French Empire? Weren't these supposed to last for ever? As they say, "those who would not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it". A Yoruba proverb admonishes, " ile ti a ba f'ito mo, iri ni o wo". Nigeria was not built on any sound foundation and that is why it has been stumbling from one disaster to another with increasing severity. We either wisely RECREATE it in the images of its many peoples, and quickly too, or foolishly do nothing and LOSE it.

 
Of course, neither of us can accurately forecast the future. However, your "scholarship" has not produced any example of a country that regularly wasted thousands of its innocent citizens' lives and did not disintegrate in short order like many of my examples above. I do not know your source of information about Nigeria. What I see, however, is NOT a passing breed----stuck in a romantic nativist rut, BUT an emerging breed of clear-eyed, clear-thinking individuals who prefer to work WITH and not AGAINST our differences. Accordingly, Nigeria needs much more than your facile optimism to survive as a country. It needs a reckoning with the fact that 100 years is not enough for national institutions created over millennia to give way to the mere  bravado of alleged conquest.
Sincerely,

 
Adeniran Adeboye-

 

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On Jul 7, 2011, at 11:40 PM, Rex Marinus wrote:

"Further, in the USA are Courts of Law and Para-legal Institutions that ensure killers and trouble makers are brought to justice. Going back to at least 1966 in Nigeria, have you seen or read where those who organized mass killings of fellow Nigerians and those that carried out such dastardly bloody acts have been punished? Do know that there are Nigerian leaders past and present that deserved to be charged and tried at the International Court of Justice at the Hague for genocide and atrocities against humanity? The mass killings that took place in Rwanda in 1994 are far cry to what has happened and continues to take place in Nigeria; yet most of the leadership of Rwanda involved in the genocide in that country are facing justice at the Hague for crimes against humanity.

 
Do you really and seriously believe that Boko Haram of today or the Northern Nigeria pogroms of the 1960s were simply atrocious works of undefined, disjointed and undirected group as opposed to a strong, united, selfish and self-centered establishment that claim the divine right to lead and lord it over the other ethnic nationalities of Nigeria failing which, hell is let loose on the Southern infidels? "

 
-Dr. Ken Asagwara Ken Nwanna,There is nothing sacrosanct about Nigeria. There is no sacrosanct geographical boundary. There is not even a sacrosanct identity. I will give you two examples: late in the 18th and early 19th century, Edward Blyden was the theorist of a West African Union and the right of return from the Black Diaspora. He spent his life theorizing the emergence of a black republic with West africa as his focal point. Blyden was Igbo. Three generations later, he has descendants who can trace themselves to him, but who are in Sierra-Leone, Gambia, Liberia and the US. Some of these have become Yoruba, Bassa, and African-American in their identities. early in the 19th century, there was a man, D.T. Pratt, who was leader of the Igbo Association in Gambia. One of his sons later migrated to Lagos and set up a Print shop and from him came the Pratts of Lagos, one of the so-called returnees to "victorian Lagos." His descendants today are mostly Yoruba. There are many such examples. You'd be shocked to know the number of people whose ancestry were Hausa but who are today self-identified Yoruba in Lagos, and vice-versa.

 

This slipperiness of identity makes nonsense of much claims by a category of nativists on this forum who make rather unreflective arguments about Nigeria. Just as the boundaries of Nigeria as a modern nation is not sacrosanct, no ethnic boundaries are sacrosanct. But here are a number issues to consider:a) Nations come about more by conquest than by peaceful negotaitions. This is to Wale Adedayo: name any country, empire, or state which has come to being by peaceful agreements: Great Britain? The Germany of the hasburgs? The Empire of Russia? The Kanem Bornu empire? The Oyo empire? The Benin or Sokoto empires? Canada? Australia? South Africa? None! All nations have absorbed and swallowed lesser nations to become. The history of all history is the history of conquests that shape the progress of man through time. Nigeria was formed and formalized through European conquest. Prior to that formation, the Yoruba was in a state of anomie, and was not an organic union; the Igbo was a fragment of disorganized communes still reeling from the devastating effects of the slave trade, the Hausa Banza and Bokwai states had succumbed not too long before then to the fierce Jihad of a religious fanatic migrating from the Senegambia valley, carrying the Ottoman flag. Nigeria, like all nations before it, is the product of a self-interested will, brought into being by force for purely ecopnomic and political reasons. It is the economic and political reasons which always is at the root of the idea of nations.

 

No one is ever consulted, unless you have a stake in the futures of the land brought under dominion. Just as no one was cionsulted nor a family conference aclled when your parents were making you, it is quite romantic to imagine that a general conference of the people will ratify any more fundamental agreements that would re-establish Nigeria. Nigeria is not merely an idea, it is reality. Nigeria is the inheritance of everyone born under its flag. The handful of those who wish to renegotiate it will have to do what thiose who formed it did: do so by sheer force of superior will and conquest. It is a challenge.B) Our forebears fought and struggled with the British to return the collective sovereignty of the people defeated to form Nigeria. Atahiru in Sokoto. Ovaranwen in Idu. Jojo n'Opobo. The Igbo states defeated after a thirty-year guerrilla war and six campaigns, that saw the bringing to the courts at awka of EzeNri Obalike. The various Yoruba groups had written to the British to colonize them, and required no fight. In other words, they ceded their sovereignty willingly to this external force. It took three generations to fight the anti-colonial war, by pamphleteering, by defiance and sabotage, until the British withdrew their political stakes in the nation. As a way of negotiating the future of that nation - the question in 1950/51 was whether to break it up into the original states existing prior to its formation or cede it to Nigerians as a new sovereign; the various ethnicities and representative of minority groups met first at the Ibadan Conference in 1950/51, and later in london from 1957-1958.

 

They argued, and debated, and arrived at an agreement that led to the charter of nation, and to what we now call the "indepedence constitution." It is therefore not true that Nigeria exists without the agreements of the parts that make it up. Agreements were reached before independence and sovereignty was granted. That agreement is the foundational text of the charter of the modern nigerian state.C) Finally, let me address your position above: Nigeria is flawed in many ways, no doubt. But it is a work in progress. It suffers from the distraction of a very wounded and skeptical generation who suffer the trauma of Nigeria's violent, false beginnings as nation. I have been skeptical about Nigeria too, but it is no longer simply about me. It is about a new generation who are not afflicted with the same conditions of our history. The likes iof Dr. Ojo and Adeboye and such like, belong increasingly to a passing breed who seem stuck in a romantic nativist rut. While they are busy hoping that Nigeria will dissappear, more ambitious and clear-sighted people are busier shaping tyhe skeleton and building the backbones of this magnificent animal, even it it is a British invention. Its genome is from the dead empires and city states that have naturally withered and will dissappear only twi genertions from hence. It takes the fierce struggle of vsionary and brave men and women to steer the nation towards justice. True, Nigeria has not tried many whom it should try, but that is why we keep chronicles.

 

Those who escape the judgment of today will be haunted by time. As Igbo, we have borne the brunt of the nation far more than any other group; many of us have died; many maimed, but that is the great reason why we cannot afford to dishonor their sacrifice. Boko Haram is a flash in the pan. Nigeria is too large - both as an idea and a s a space for them. It is now left to us to insist on the path of justice. Three years from now, Nigeria will celebrate its centennary as a nation. It is but a strippling lad. Too young; too rmbunctious; too driven to excess. Time will however calm its spirits. Obi Nwakanma

 _____________________ "If I don't learn to shut my mouth I'll soon go to hell, I, Okigbo, town-crier, together with my iron bell." --Christopher Okigbo  

 
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-From:  Ken.Asagwara@gov.mb.ca

 
 Dr. Igietseme:
Please what is so sacrosanct dismembering Nigeria, if such would augur well for the different ethnic nationalities that now live together in Nigeria and some sections of the country are senselessly killing other members?
I thought that life is supposed to be sacred and not so-easily snuffed out as if you are swatting a nuisance insect. Do, have you taken stock of the millions of people senselessly killed for no just cause in Nigeria since 1960 Nigeria gain political Independence from Britain? Why live together and alongside those human life means nothing. As I argued two days ago, a  negotiated break up giving the North an unrestricted access to the sea ports, reasonable division of revenues from all mineral resources (since that seems to be what holds Nigeria together), shared currency unit, free access to markets across the border, etc., should make everyone happy to live in their own country. The old Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Indo-Pakistan, Pakistan-Bangladesh, Ethiopia-Eritrea, UAR, Sudan-South Sudan (in the offing) etc. did go their separate ways and the heavens above them did not fall on them.

 
You often cite America as a good example of a country where the different nationalities that make up the country live side by each other in peace, right? Well, what you forget is your citation vis-a-vis Nigeria is like comparing apples to oranges. Have you seen for the years you lived in the USA or before where any of the ethnic groups you mentioned rose in an organized orgy of ethnic or sectional bloodletting against any other ethnic group, either or in the name of religion, geography, social grouping, etc.? You do have in the USA individual differences and pockets of racism that hardly lead to senseless orgy of ethnic or sectional mass murders.

 
And please, what is your definition of “modern nation”? And if I understand what you mean, are the countries I cited above that disintegrated for their own good not among your idea of modern nations? So, why would Nigeria’s disintegration, if it comes to that make it a primitive nation?

 
Albeit, I do understand the fears of fellow Nigerians like you who believe they are better off the way Nigeria is than renegotiate the way forward or go our separate ways. You as an Edo man fears living in Nigeria without the Igbo or Yoruba whereby, what is left of Nigeria would enslave you. After all, as it was and still is, the two of the tripod that holds Nigeria together act as your bulwark against born-to-rule tyranny. A Nigeria without them means you are doomed; we understand that fear. In that case, you all should support the call for the different ethnic nationalities that make up Nigeria to come to a conference table and negotiate how we all will and can live together in Nigeria in peace. Every well meaning Nigerian is sick and tired of the senseless and episodic orgy of mass bloodletting. As recently frustratingly opined by the President, Goodluck Jonathan, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
“To Thyself Be True; That Thou Lie Not To Someone Else”
Cheers.
I am,

 
Mazi KC Prince Asagwara, Ph.D.
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From:  NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com]  On Behalf Of Dr. Kassim,
We also know that essentially all Americans, at least a sizable majority believe in their nation; even as Jews, Germans, French, Africans, British, Irish, Russian, Arab, Mexican, Spanish and Chinese Americans may do their thing. They do their thing and they are DIFFERENT is not an acceptable basis to DISMEMBER America. So it shouldn’t be the basis for advocating the DISINTERATION of any modern nation. Take care. JUI

 
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From: olakassimmd@aol.com [mailto:olakassimmd@aol.com] 
 He will never get it that there is NOTHING SACRED or even NATURAL or NORMAL about the Hausa, Igbo, and Yoruba - not to talk of the smaller ethnicities - belonging to a NATION  or POLITICAL UNIONtogether.
We are just TOO DIFFERENT in cultural values, ways and worldviews.
The Hausa, the Igbo and the Yoruba  DO NOT subscribe to the same philosophies of life - what is important to a people as human beings, what is not - and we NEVER WILL!
 Do all American citizens subscribe to the same philosophies of life? Do they share the same values-all 300 million plus
of them!
  Bye,
 Ola

 
---- Original Message -----------------------------------------------------

 

From: Dr. Valentine Ojo <valojo@md.metrocast.net> Ogbeni Wale Adeoye:
Joe Igietseme is only good at standing people's logic on its head! He is ONE-NIGERIA DIE HARD who is not ready to die for Nigeria - only TALK TALK from Atlanta!
Stop wasting your time and breath on Joe Igietseme. 
He will never get it that there is NOTHING SACRED or even NATURAL or NORMAL  about the Hausa, Igbo, and Yoruba - not to talk of the smaller ethnicities - belonging to a NATION  or POLITICAL UNION together.
We are just TOO DIFFERENT in cultural values, ways and worldviews.
The Hausa, the Igbo and the Yoruba DO NOT subscribe to the same philosophies of life - what is important to a people as human beings, what is not - and we NEVER WILL!
Indeed, "The real enemies of Nigeria are those who want to keep it the way it is! "
Dr. Valentine OjoTall Timbers, MD

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From: "waleadeoye90@yahoo.com"  

 

JUI, you stood my logic on its head. Read my text again and again. You said BH can't threaten the sovereignty of Nigeria, that's too late, there's no point shutting the door when the horse has bolted away.BH's already threatening that sovereignty. I did not compare MEND with BH, both are making demands, but in different ways. One has resorted to armed struggle, the other to bomb throwing bombs which to me leads to unnecessary loss of human souls. I fully support 100 percent resource allocation according to derivation. I was part of the Kiama Declaration and I took active part in two great rallies organised in Port Harcourt for resource control. If some people want to practise Sharia in their part of the country, let them go with it. Their people should vote and decide what they want. Deep in our minds, something is fundamentally wrong with the structure of Nigeria and I insist that if dividing the country will stop the waste of human lives and the carnage, as we saw in Sudan, why not?. As per knowing consequences of what I write, there's nothing I write here that I have not written in the best newspapers in my over 23 years as a journalist in Nigeria. What u should realise is that the colonial laws were sacred, Zik/Awo broke them. There's nothing sacrosanct about Nigerian sovereignty that cannot be challenged for the sake of peace and respect for the dignity of man. The UN Charter on Self Determination is clear on this and it is superior to Nigerian constitution. The US constitution afterall allows for each state to secede. The more you make the unity sacred, the more you threaten it. The real enemies of Nigeria are those who want to keep it the way it is!
Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN

 
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From: "Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID)"
Wale Adeoye:
Yours below would illustrate the consistent debacle Nigeria continues to face and why she is spinning on her wheels. You presented your position on an issue [your supposedly strong support for Ola Kassim’s stance on the comparison of MEMD and Boko Haram], however, you presented FACTS that are counter-intuitive with and radically against the position you have. I am uncertain how some of you sleep with this mindset and how you expect peace to reign in a community where people’s actions and attitudes are not guided by the available FACTS on reigning issues. Let me cite some examples to you for consideration:

 
First, let us take the Religious Cause BH is fighting versus the Survival Cause of MEND in the Niger Delta. We know that BH members are free to practice their religion the way they like in Nigeria as long as they want to be Nigerian citizens; if they don’t want to be Nigerian citizens because they don’t like the constitution, they are also FREE to go anywhere they like; however, they cannot decide that other Nigerians [Muslims and non-Muslims] should worship like them; and they cannot mess with the territorial integrity of Nigeria with their foreign Al-Qaedaic religious practices that are anti-Muslims and non-Muslim; those activities are tantamount to threat to peace, tampering with the freedom and inalienable rights of other citizens; it is a sedition and attack on the sovereignty of the Nigerian nation. You know the consequences of such insubordination.

 
Second, you said you value human life; but you appear to be comfortable with the terror and campaign of violence by BH, who are unprovoked and who are trying to force their religious ways on other people; this is the KEY POINT here. How do you compare that to the Survival struggle of MEND that is only asking for a FAIR share of the wealth derived from his compound, an economic activity that has rendered the Niger-Deltans homeless, and unable to make a living? Tell us!
Third, what appeared to have started as a case for why BH and MEND should or should not be compared degenerated into the signature ethnic dance and jingoism commonly exhibited on this forum. You went into why Nigerian ethnic groups have to go their own; but it is a FACTS that the leaderships of Nigeria have been drawn from these ethnic groups. So if Nigeria is MESSED UP, ask the ethnic groups, yours and mine!

 
Thus, what is your POINT again? Why did you “strongly support Ola Kassim’s position” on the comparison of BH and MEND again? I am sure you have forgotten; however, your Strong Support stands, Right? My Brother, let’s ALWAYS look ourselves in the mirror and say to ourselves: “I am what is wrong with Nigeria; so I MUST Change my ways; for the good of Nigeria and posterity; because Nigeria will outlive me”! Take care. JUI

 
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From: NigerianID@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NigerianID@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of  waleadeoye90@yahoo.com

 
Igietseme, Joseph, I strongly support Dr Kassim's position. You said no one prevents BK from practising their faith, the Nigerian constitution which lords itself over them does. They are compelled to be ruled by a constitution that is Supreme over their own sharia. So in a way, that is limiting their conception of freedom. Did u know why I think they are resulting2 guerrilla tactics? Campaign 4 democracy protested with phamplets, members were detained or killed. Ken Saro Wiwa protested with leafs and he was hanged, Opc did with hoes and cutlasses, many of them were murdered. Then Mend went into the creeks with sophisticated weapons, a whole village, Odi was raized down, thousands killed. Now BK is saying that they will embark on guerrilla tactics, which is like a fly perching on the scrotum. You kill it had and you loose your manhood. I can see a vicious clash of civilisations in Nigeria which will result into greater calamities. This is one of the strongest points for self determination of ethnic nationalities in Nigeria. The UN needs to save the situation before it is too late. Its just that people don't value human lives, those who cherish human lives won't argue a second for the retention of this country, but the military regimes have so removed our humanity that we even grin at the awful sights of children massacred on a day of rage in Jos, pregnant women ripped open and the foetus pummeled and tongue in cheek, we insist on going ahead into the promised land that no one can located after close to 100 years in the wilderness. In civilised nations, two lives lost are enough to call for a halt in a marriage that feasst on human blood. The call for restructuring on the pages of newspapers is boring and ony nurtures photo opportunism. Advocates wants to appear daily on newspaper pages and travel from one workshop to the other. No serious leadership across the world attain fame, victory and grandeur through web dancing and media self-glorification. Leather-tongued philistines (Joseph, not u pls) will argue, even at our own individual and collective peril, that we should hope against hope, and I keep on wondering where a country must remain indivisible, when atom once thought to be indivisible was torn into protons and newtrons, and further into smaller elements, irrespective of Dalton's false prediction that atom was the smallest indivisible particle. some people wish to keep Nigeria as it is for the primitive protection of their self-interests, their lack of a strong nexus with ordinary people in the backwaters, because they cant feel the fury and the long-drawn euphoria in a garrison country which forceful unity spewforth blood, anguish and unending pains. Dividing the country will save more lives that are headlong for a shipwreck owing to perpetual feud propelled by deep-seated ethnic cleavages. No doubt, terrorism isn't the answer, and to me killing fellow human beings in such a gruesome and barbaric manner is cowardly and irresponsible. But what amount of grammar will stop the madness? Why can't they have their supreme sharia in the Hausa-Fulani states? Why not? The serious problem now is that most of the main targets are beer parlors and we all know where those victims are likely to come from. The killings of fellow northerners is a case of perceived collaborators. Anybody who does not see the ethnic and religious colouration in the killings need to have his head re-examined. Nigeria needs to shrink or sink.

 
Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN

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From: "Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID)"Subject: NigerianID | RE: Let Boko Haram have their own country, says Omoruyi


 “””. If one were able to speak to the leaders of the Boko Haram, I wouldn't be surprised if they also use the same arguments as the leaders of MEND and other terrorist groups in the Niger Delta and elsewhere in Nigeria.  They will probably claim to be fighting for their own self determination, human rights and dignity and the freedom to practice their religion and culture unencumbered by the restrictions of a secular Nigerian state with an alien governance system that is modeled after those of western nations. ””Unquote Dr ola Kassim


 Dr. Kassim:
Your statement above is one of the reasons humanity will find it difficult to achieve peace based on justice  because some of us will tenuously bend or misstate the facts and mix apples and oranges for no known reason than accommodate injustice, deprive people and entrench tyranny in society. These are the bare FACTS before us: first, nobody has prevented Boko Haramites from worshipping as they like, wish or prefer; the only request is that they should leave other people alone to worship as the people wish in a secular society. However, the oil exploration of the Feds and their allies have devastated the communities in the Niger Delta such that the people cannot farm, fish or make a living; they clamored for succor and  relief but were IGNORED while the Feds and allies continue to derive their revenues from the devastation and inhumanity in the Niger Delta. Backed to the walls and for their survival, the Niger Deltans resorted to armed struggle; this is a practice by freedom fighters and oppressed people allover the world, from South Africa, to Egypt to the Americas. FACT! So how did you come about suggesting that a leader of BH could be explaining the group’s criminal and terrorists activities by “”..  probably [claiming] to be fighting for their own self determination, human rights and dignity and the freedom to practice their religion and culture unencumbered by the restrictions of a secular Nigerian state with an alien governance system that is modeled after those of western nations]. Has anybody prevented a BH member from worshipping as he/she likes? Is it not the deliberated UNPROVOKED attacks on people that is the problem? Can you say the Niger Deltans are UNPROVOKED?
Second, you and I have followed the news that the bombers of Abuja who claimed to be MEND members were a disgruntled group seeking selfish attention outside of what the authentic MEND stands for. FACT! So it is really disappointing that you are bringing that issue up to compare the authentic MEND embraced by late President Yar’Adua and recently by President GEJ and the disgruntled criminals who are currently being prosecuted. The  attempt to mix up these issues is misleading and misinforming.


Third, as I said below, any argument that compares the armed SURVIVAL struggle of the Niger Deltans to the UNPROVOKED criminal/terrorism of BH would makes the historical struggles for people’s liberty and national independence from colonialism and tyranny [including the ANC activities in South Africa, the arms struggle for Independence by Americans against Britain et cetera] criminal activities; and again I say that is incorrect! So while there is a COMMONALITY between criminal robbers and soldiers in charge of national security because they Both Carry Guns and will use them to achieve their causes, the two groups have different causes; the Soldiers have a legit cause [State security] to protect with guns, while the robbers have an illegitimate cause, at least as NORMAL people in society will see and classify them!


To reterate my point, in humanistic and commonsensical terms, there is no basis to compare the Boko Haram criminals/religious extremists to  the Niger Delta Survival Fighters, just because arms are involved. IT IS UNACCEPTABLE!!!! Except some of us have no sense of human justice, dignity and entitlement to spatial and territorial ownership in accord with ancestral bequeathment and Divine location on Mother Earth. These are basic Human Rights respected by all, especially in these days of human civilization. This is one of the reasons the world decided to set up the United Nations to enforce these human rights and entitlements. Criminal activities of robbers, religious extremists and kidnappers are not acceptable human rights and commendable practices that edify the humanity and the human spirit. Take care. JUI  

 

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From: edo-nationality@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:edo-nationality@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Joe:
It is unlikely that you will ever succeed in drawing a  sharp line between the insurgent actions of MEND and the Niger DeltaVolunteer Defence Force on the one hand and those of the Boko Haramon the other.
What is the difference between MEND setting up bombs on the streetsof Abuja during the campaigns in the last Presidential electionsand Boko Haram's suicide bomb attack on the headquartersof the Nigerian Police Force in Abuja?


Both groups have sacrificed innocent Nigerian lives in order to drawattention for what they consider are their legitimate grievances. It does not matter to them what you or I or any other Nigerian thinksabout their demands. As I have argued previously on this topic--one's man's terroristis another man's freedom fighter. If one were able to speak tothe leaders of the Boko Haram, I wouldn't be surprised if they alsouse the same arguments as the leaders of MEND and otherterrorist groups in the Niger Delta and elsewhere in Nigeria.


They will probably claim to be fighting for their own self determination, human rights and dignityand the freedom to practice their religion and culture unencumberedby the restrictions of a secular Nigerian state with an alien governance system thatis modeled after those of western nations.


Governments throughout the world usually have at least three optionswhen confronting the menace of factional terrorism. They often startwith a gradual escalation of police and military actions against the insurgentswhile taking care to ensure that civilian collateral casualties areavoided or reduced to the barest minimum. When these gradual approachesfail to yield positive results some government have occasionally resorted to a scotched earthapproach--(e.g. the Odi Massacre during the OBJ regime), in which soldiers and the police aregiven the orders to shoot on sight leaving no one standing. Finally, after trying boththe gradual and the take no prisoners 'maximum force' approach' states haveno option but to negotiate with the leaders of the insurgents in an attemptto redress their grievances.
I do not see any major differences between Boko Haram and MEND.The Boko Haram have continued to maim and kill innocent Nigeriansthe same way that MEND, NDVDF (under Asari Dokubo) had in the pastterrorized innocent Nigerian citizens in the Niger Delta, Lagos and Abuja.


We cannot have different strokes for different groups of terrorists!
If President Jonathan could end cuddling some factional leaders ofMEND--whom he referred to as 'my own people'. I believe the FGNshould also seek to negotiate with the leaders of Boko Haramwhom I am sure Vice President Namadi Sambo--could also referto as his own people. If I am not mistaken, I believe I have read somweherethat VP Sambo is in favor of the FGN engaging the leaders of the Boko Haramin peace talks.

Bye,
Ola 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID)  Mustafa Isa:


Your argument makes the historical struggles for people’s liberty and national independence from colonialism and tyranny [including the ANC activities in South Africa, the arms struggle for Independence by Americans against Britain et cetera] criminal activities; and that is incorrect!


As I said below, there is a COMMONALITY between criminal robbers and soldiers in charge of national security. They Both Carry Guns and will use them to achieve their causes; however, they have different causes, one being legit while the other is considered illegit, at least by SANE people in society! In humanistic and commonsensical terms, there is no basis to compare the Boko Haram criminals/religious extremists to  the Niger Delta Survival Fighters, just because arms are involved. IT IS UNACCEPTABLE!!!! Except some of us have no sense of human justice, dignity and entitlement to spatial and territorial ownership in accord with ancestral bequeathment and Divine location on Mother Earth. These are basic Human Rights respected by all, especially in these days of human civilization. This is one of the reasons the world decided to set up the United Nations to enforce these human rights and entitlements. Criminal activities of robbers, religious extremists and kidnappers are not acceptable human rights and commendable practices that edify the humanity and the human spirit. Take care. JUI


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

From:  mustaisa@yahoo.com [mailto:mustaisa@yahoo.com]  Boko Haram and Niger Delta militants both acquired arms illegally and used them against security agents and innocent people. They are both criminal groups no matter their reasons. Motive does not make an illegal act legal. Those who rob banks and distribute the money to the poor and those who rob and buy lexus jeeps are all armed robbers.

------------------------------------------------------------------

There is a COMMONALITY between criminal robbers and soldiers in charge of national security. They have different causes, one being legit while the other is considered illegit, at least by SANE people in society! Take care. JUI
 --------------------------------------------------------------From: Ibukunolu Alao Babajide [mailto:ibk@usa.net]  Dear Joe

Igietseme, 
Do you know the meaning of the words you use?  So it is sane to admit that both groups are determined to change the social and legal order by force.  At least you have admitted that there is some commonality between the two groups.  So what you wrote below in unreasonable: 
"Any serious-minded, right-thinking Nigerian with an iota of justice in his/her thinking, knows that it is INSANE to compare Boko Haram criminals/religious extremists to  the Niger Delta Survival Fighters, just because arms are involved. IT IS UNACCEPTABLE!!!! Take care. JUI  " 
The sane thing to do is to find the defining attribute of both groups.  You have sanely identified it, "because arms are involved", so you are serious-minded, and you have an iota of justice in your thinking, and you are not INSANE.  You just do not know what you are writing because you are left-minded. 

Cheers. 
IBK 


------ Original Message ------  Received: 07:55 AM EAT, 07/05/2011 From: "Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID)" <jbi8@cdc.gov> 


“””””Querying the call by some Nigerians for the granting of amnesty to members of the sect, Prof. Omoruyi, argued that so far Nigerians were yet to know “exactly” what the sect was agitating for, unlike the former militants in the Niger Delta, who fought marginalisation. He said: “I think there is a lot of confusion about the demands of the militants in the Niger Delta and the Boko Haram of the North. In Niger Delta, we knew what the problems were, who the people were and what they were talking about; being injustice arising from the oil in the area. “They did not hide it. Sometimes, it manifested as resource control, sometimes, derivation. They cried that the oil is dooming in the Niger Delta but the money is booming in the North. “For Boko Haram, is theirs political? Are they saying that they want Afghanistan in Nigeria? The solution I think is lets give them that part of the country for them to live in the stone age. There is nothing you are going to do than allow that to reign there. Let us have a referendum and give them the opportunity to run their state according to the Sharia. I believe so. “We don’t know these people. They have not come out to say who they are. Therefore, when somebody said that they want to dialogue, dialogue with who? When they say give amnesty, amnesty to who? “You can talk with militants you know are fighting for their oil, because you know it belongs to them and it is true. ””””Unquote Prof Omoruyi
Any serious-minded, right-thinking Nigerian with an iota of justice in his/her thinking, knows that it is INSANE to compare Boko Haram criminals/religious extremists to  the Niger Delta Survival Fighters, just because arms are involved. IT IS UNACCEPTABLE!!!! Take care. JUI 

 

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From: COLLINS EZEBUIHE [ mailto:collyezebuihe@hotmail.com]  

 

Vince,   Boko Haramites have said that they do not respect international boundaries. So, even if they are allowed to have the North east as their nation, they'll still be bombing places like Oyo, Kwara, Abuja, Lagos, etc.   With people like Chief Gemologist (Bashiru Akanji), Boko Haram may have friends  in the South west. Thats the real problem. Btw, wasn't Boko Haram rumored to be targeting Cross River State too? And, do you know that there are thriving islamic communities in Cross River State?   PS: People living in the South west should keep an eye on Bashiru Akanji. He might be a closet Boko Haramite.   Collins.

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EDE N'ERHENA VBE EDO

"

These anti-Edo political organizations you folks went to join are the most anti-African - and Africans - in the world.

They're worse than anything; we obviously can't stop you though, even Ewuare II's manifest destiny lies in our own regional party.

We have egba Omo Oduduwa and so on, NPC, AG, the forerunner of them all NCNC and then now these cancers of today.

Stay "with them", but register for your most important election first: your local election, register Edo Political Front, and if you don't, vote the front.

No self respecting Edo will - in the future - find themselves the flag bearers and cheerleaders of foreign parties with indirect rule political and economic mandates, it just doesn't work.

No sane Edo person lives to "have the ear" of someone who doesn't have Edo at their heart.

The Supreme Court is the place to remove the frustration of these lethargic and "periodic" additions to the voting rolls; here - where I live - you can fill in the forms regarding changing your voter registration at the post office and other easy access places.

At the rate things are going we're going to find ourselves truly in decline as our populations suffer from simple things like protein deficiencies in children

" - Reggie Akpata

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